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Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Mary Masako Suzuki Aoki 
1979 
Cassette 1, Side 1 
 
 
Jill G. Smith  00:01 
So, you are American-born, but you came here--?  
 
Mary Aoki  00:04 
Yes, my parents came from Japan, and my dad left Japan to avoid conscription.  
 
Mary Aoki  00:12 
Well, so he was born-- he wouldn't have fought in Russo-Japanese War, [?but anyway?]. The 
Japanese always had military conscription. [Tape malfunctions.] [Inaudible.] 
 
Jill G. Smith  00:13 
Which war was that? 
 
Jill G. Smith  00:55 
Oh, why is that? 
 
Mary Aoki  00:56 
-- Because in Japan, [inaudible] the daughter, and in return, he will take the brides family name. 
But that's just a tradition. So, when he was in grade school, he [inaudible]. Yes, but anyway, he 
[inaudible]. Given to this family, and it didn't work out too well. And it's very interesting, 
because before he died, he told me it was because if he might turn over in his grave [inaudible]. 
You know, what happened was, apparently his aunt, who was not the blood [inaudible], who 
was-- almost wanted to have an affair with him. You know, like incest. And so he abruptly 
departed. But he said he really couldn't tell anyone. 
 
Jill G. Smith  02:26 
That was an aunt that had married into his family, or was the aunt of an intended bride?  
 
Mary Aoki  02:30 
No, no, that was an aunt that was-- it was-- to his aunt and uncle's house, so she's considerably 
older, but yet he was a very nice looking young man, and there was an age difference between 
his aunt and uncle. And he told me, after he was senile, about-- he reminisced about his 
childhood, and he told me things that all these years, we had been under this misconception 
Page 2 of 14 
 
about his dad, about his dying. We always heard that he died from alcoholism, you know? And 
my mother thought that was pretty shameful, but anyway, but what the truth of the matter was 
that he died of tuberculosis. But in Japan, TB carries such a stigma that they think, Well, because 
so many-- well, naturally, it's a bacteria, you know, and you can catch it, and naturally you could 
transmit it to other people. So quite often, several members of the family would get it and it was 
always thought that you had inherited all this. And it was just, you know, medicine was still at 
that level where people were very afraid of TB. 
 
Jill G. Smith  03:46 
And so alcoholism was preferable?  
 
Mary Aoki  03:48 
Yeah, apparently. It's interesting. 
 
Jill G. Smith  03:50 
Goodness.  
 
Mary Aoki  03:51 
And then-- just-- my dad was 83 and just before he died, he was telling me about his boyhood 
days, and he wept over the fact that he would never want to subject his children to that. So he 
said, Come hell or high water, he was going to take care of his kid. And then he also told me 
about his dad and when he had this last terrible hemorrhage. And apparently, his mother tried to-
- she thought that losing that blood was his life was going to-- try to scoop it back into his mouth. 
And he said that she-- he remembers that as a child. And then he remember the the ambulance 
coming and taking him away, because only under extraordinary circumstances in those days 
were there cars ever used. 
 
Jill G. Smith  04:47 
That was turn of the century, probably?  
 
Mary Aoki  04:48 
Yeah, my dad was born, and yeah, absolutely, he was born in 1889, so he was very young when 
his dad died. 
 
Jill G. Smith  04:53 
He was 21, then, when [?he moved?]. 
 
Mary Aoki  05:03 
When he left Japan. He went to Singapore and traveled through Afghanistan. He told me tales 
about how he ate, you know, bananas for three cents a day he could live on. You know, it was 
really rather an exhaustive diet. Then his brother, rather unorthodox family, I'd say, fell in love 
with a girl, but he was the heir to the family, and so he was not to pick his own bride, but he did. 
He fell in love with this girl, and the family objected to the marriage, and so he left. And then he 
came to Vancouver, to Canada, and it's his grandson that's become so well known in Canadian 
TV. And-- 
 
Page 3 of 14 
 
Jill G. Smith  05:52 
Did he bring the girl with him?  
 
Mary Aoki  05:53 
Yes, they're married, and that's the offspring. And so, my uncle Goro, who is the last-- I don't 
know why they named him fifth son when there were only three sons in the family, unless there 
were miscarriages or something between that I'm not aware of. 
 
Jill G. Smith  06:12 
Is that what Goro means? 
 
Mary Aoki  06:12 
Yeah, Goro means sort of fifth son. And he was the heir to the family and, in business, he's not a 
trained geneticist, but through working with chickens, he bred a chicken that was most 
compatible to the environment in Japan, and for this, he was given the golden medal, or the 
Yellow [?Odisho?], whatever that-- high honor from the emperor. So it's a distinguished medal. 
And so, he's come to America, and been to Sweden. And it was rather hilarious, because he gave 
us a calling card and said The International President of the Chick Sexing Association, and I just 
about cracked up [laughs]. But it was a rather important function. But, we took him to Heisdorf 
and Nelson, which is one of the big chicken people here, who have many PhDs on their staff, 
geneticists and all. And he was able, without knowing much English, communicate with them 
how he treated certain diseases, and also about how the kinds of buildings built to produce more 
eggs, [?meaning?] light and kind of deceiving the chicken, this type of thing. But it was most 
interesting that-- so I appreciated the fact that he knew what he was doing, but that's the kind-- 
and my mother comes from a very zen, chill family. Well, anyway. So and-- 
 
Jill G. Smith  07:10 
-- A little more tradition bound? 
 
Mary Aoki  08:02 
Yeah, it was-- yes, she came from a family who is very well known in her area and-- 
 
Jill G. Smith  08:11 
-- Which area did she come from? 
 
Mary Aoki  08:12 
Central Japan, Aichi Ken, that my dad too. You see, Aichi Ken is known as the Denmark of 
Japan. It's a very-- there aren't poor sections, you know, segments of the population like they 
would in other areas like Hiroshima or many of the areas. You see, people that have immigrated 
here primarily come from certain areas of Japan where maybe they had more trouble farming or 
getting-- and Aichi Ken, there are very few people here. The reason is because people that came 
from that area simply came because-- for reasons other than wanting to immigrate to make 
money.  
 
Jill G. Smith  08:51 
Oh, so for personal relevant [?economy?] . 
Page 4 of 14 
 
 
Mary Aoki  08:53 
Yeah, that's right. So my mother came in 1922, I believe. 
 
Jill G. Smith  09:06 
Did you know your father prior to their immigrating? 
 
Mary Aoki  09:09 
No, no. She just heard that he had been in America, and was quite successful, and she thought 
that he was rather kind of arrogant at their first meeting and-- but I mean, you just married the 
person that your family thought was a good match.  
 
Jill G. Smith  09:38 
Oh, so she came-- so she came to America right after she got married.  
 
Mary Aoki  09:42 
He came to Japan. They were married. They had this Miai, which is the families get together and 
have this ceremony, and they see each other. And of course, if they can't stand each other, they 
don't get married. He felt that she was acceptable and so, which is very funny.  
 
Jill G. Smith  10:00 
That was after his travels throughout [inaudible]. 
 
Mary Aoki  10:01 
Yes, that's right. Came back to Japan. And then they were married, and then they came to 
Seattle.  
 
Jill G. Smith  10:08 
And Seattle was their first stop then? That was 1922. 
 
Mary Aoki  10:14 
'22, yeah. This was-- my dad had been, oh, he had been in America first. He had been-- his 
brother was here in Vancouver. Okay, so he came to America, and he worked with the labor 
camps in Montana, in the logging camp, I guess that's what they were. He said it was an 
interesting combo, you know, groups of people that were there, because some were very well 
educated people. He said there was a very well educated Buddhist priest that was there in his 
logging camp, and they were very good friends. There was a poet. He said it was a-- I was trying 
to think where the last pictures of those were, but anyway, there's some marvelous photographs. 
But anyway, so-- and I was born in 1925, the first child. And I have another sister, who was born 
three years later, then three years later, another daughter, and then I have a brother, [inaudible]. 
And he was born in '32 or '33, somwhere [inaudible]. My dad felt that since in most families, 
immigrant families, their parents worked, and he felt that it was to the detriment of the child, 
because the child comes from an immigrant family, and they may be having trouble in school 
with language problems, et cetera, which turned out to be not true. They didn't have language 
problems, per se, okay, but he worried about things like that. So we never lived in what you call 
a Japanese community.  
Page 5 of 14 
 
 
Jill G. Smith  12:15 
Oh, he had already planned out-- 
 
Mary Aoki  12:17 
Yeah, we always lived, not because he felt that when the kids came home from school, they got 
together and they they, he just felt that it was better, you know, where the-- to come home where 
the mother was home and not to be influenced by that. He felt that it was important to-- well, 
somehow he, I guess he really worried about silly things like that. He thought that the children 
were out in the street playing, and he didn't believe in that kind of thing. I think he really 
became-- he was a paradox. You know, he was very liberal in his thinking and an idealist to a 
fault, you know, except that when it came to my mother, he was the most traditional, arrogant-- I 
told him that he was a man from the feudal ages. I said he was a Tokugawa man. And he says, 
Please don't put me back that far, he said, you know. But we always, never talk back to our 
parents or anything, because, I don't know, I guess, it's something that we never did. But when I 
grew older, after I came back to Japan in '40-- from Japan to here in '47, I told my dad that he 
should be nicer to his wife, you know, and that, you know, shouldn't like-- she prepares the food 
for the dinner. It's a nice dinner. It's better to say how nice it is than to pick and say, Well, this 
could have been a little bit something or other, you know. But he sort of tended to do things like 
that, which used to upset me. He always, somehow he had that attitude. Well, he sure was, I 
guess, macho, as far as my mom was concerned. But he really worried about our education and-- 
but so. 
 
Jill G. Smith  12:17 
What sort of home did your parents have for you? Was it a traditional Japanese home, or was it a 
mixture? 
 
Mary Aoki  13:13 
No, yeah, sure. It was a traditional in the sense that we were not allowed to speak English at 
home. 
 
Mary Aoki  14:23 
Yeah, because they wanted us to learn Japanese. Okay, so we were able to converse with our 
parents in Japanese. And to this day, I remember my mother would say, Don't say me, me. 
Please. Don't say me, me. You know, please, you know, just for me, for me, she felt that that was 
so egocentric, and she just didn't like the word me, you know. And we had to call-- my sisters 
had to call me Oneesan, bigger older sister, you know, this kind of in deference to age or to 
firstborn, you know. And like my brother, was not allowed in the kitchen, for instance, to help 
with anything. Never wash dishes. In that sense, it was super traditional. And of course, the irony 
of the whole thing is that my brother is a manager of restaurants. And my father-- my father 
always looked down-- in Japan, there's a, they call them water businesses, you know, where 
there's a place to eat. There are geisha. They associate all these things, you know, sort of rather 
decadence with places to reach. It's an old fashioned idea. 
 
Jill G. Smith  14:23 
Is that right? 
Page 6 of 14 
 
 
Jill G. Smith  14:43 
You called it a water business. Does that mean insubstantial?  
 
Mary Aoki  15:49 
Yeah, there's no [?really loop?] to it. It's not a profession that has [inaudible]. And so he was 
very upset when Jim went into the restaurant business. 
 
Jill G. Smith  16:06 
What was your father's profession as you were growing up? 
 
Mary Aoki  16:09 
My dad? Well, he-- his-- this family that he was taken to, that they asked him to be heir to, was-- 
in Japan, tobacco was a monopoly, it's a government monopoly, to these distribution places. And 
my dad's uncle's, [?Mr. Takeuchi's?] home, was a distribution center for the local tobacco, 
whatever bureaucrat or whatever official. And so as a child, he remembers smelling the different 
grades of tobacco that he got very used to. And he smoked Camels all his life. It was very 
interesting, but that's what was his, that was the home that-- and then the other-- my father's 
father was a farmer, okay? And then he married into-- my mother, when I said genteel is because 
she comes from what they call a landowner. People that use tenant farmers. So when you own a 
lot of land and your land is at a premium, in Japan, it seems like you seem to have more power or 
more whatever it is.  
 
Jill G. Smith  17:37 
And was your father able to bring his tobacco business with him then? Was it a mobile-- 
 
Mary Aoki  17:42 
No, no, no and no. He, when he came here, he went to to study English. You know, at some-- I 
think, it was at a Christian school, some church school, they were offering English for foreigners 
type thing. But with the first money that he made working in logging camps, okay, he wasn't 
gonna have a family unti-- well, this was before he was married, even after he made a substantial 
sum. Then he start to-- He bought hotels and apartments and so it was real estate all, all of his 
life. But he was a funny man. He had certain passions. He liked old oriental rugs, and he knew 
the rugs, the [?kilns?], the weaves, everything, almost like an advocation. And I remember, as a 
child, when I first went to Japan in 1936, he told me, you know, that it would be nice if you took 
a couple of these small ones, because he said they look nice even on tatami or [inaudible]. 
Someone who, I guess, I don't know what it was. I just didn't appreciate oriental carpets at that 
age at all.  
 
Jill G. Smith  19:04 
At the age of nine, it might be difficult to kind of-- 
 
Mary Aoki  19:06 
Yeah, well, it was something that we lived with every day, and it just didn't-- and he kept trying 
to tell me, and I always kept thinking, Oh, he'd go to auctions and go to the different places and 
collect these rugs, and he would unrolled them out, you know, like someone would do a scroll or 
Page 7 of 14 
 
something. And you really-- it was sort of like a passion with him. And unfortunately, it's too 
bad I didn't, because when he had to evacuate to, you know, during the war years-- maybe I told 
you this story, he lost all of it, was stolen. So he never, yeah, so I felt badly for him, because I 
thought if I had taken a couple, at least, would have had a couple to remember. Everything they 
really had to, apparently, go with only one suitcase per person. So my mother was very upset that 
her favorite sewing basket was gone, and there were things like her favorite scissors. She said, It 
sounds silly, but I loved those scissors. It was-- I remember one of those Chinese baskets that 
had those little Chinese coins with Peking boots sewn on. Have you seen those old fashioned 
baskets? That's fine, it would open up. And then she had her favorite-- she said she wasn't able to 
take any of that when she came. Oh, and then she lost all the Japanese-- the doll festival dolls 
that were for the children, yeah, for the girls' festivals, you know, and the boys' festival. And all 
those dolls were gone.  
 
Jill G. Smith  19:09 
Do you remember those items from your childhood?  
 
Mary Aoki  20:13 
Yes, I do. But she was able, for, I don't know how she did it, but she retrieved the Emperor and 
the Empress. I'll have to show you some time. I was told that they were of such good quality and 
their-- people don't make these really terrific ones much anymore, and these are really old, and 
that the Japanese would very much like to buy them back. And the other passion, okay, I'm 
jumping around, but my dad loved stamps, and he had a very good collection of stamps from 
Japan and the Vatican.  
 
Jill G. Smith  21:21 
The Vatican? 
 
Mary Aoki  21:22 
[Inaudible.] So, my brother inherited the stamps from him, but I was told that they were worth an 
awful lot of money. That Japanese buyers now that Japan, you know, lots of wealthy people back 
there that, since it's such a complete Japanese collection, that lot of people later, was wanting to 
buy them, but Jim hasn't sold it. I guess he hasn't-- he didn't-- doesn't need the money or 
whatever. He just, it's kind of like a legacy from, you know, something from his dad that he's 
kept. 
 
Mary Aoki  21:52 
Oh yes, all the time. 
 
Jill G. Smith  21:52 
Do you remember seeing your father pouring over his fan?  
 
Jill G. Smith  21:55 
Oh really? 
 
Mary Aoki  21:56 
Page 8 of 14 
 
And-- yes, and every Christmas-- I mean, as his eyes would get worse, we would get him, you 
know, fancier magnifying glasses with lights and all this. But he was always working with these 
translucent-- it wasn't transluscent, transparent papers and the right kinds of papers, and there are 
always tweezers and-- 
 
Jill G. Smith  22:23 
That kind of work and interest sounds very particular.  
 
Mary Aoki  22:25 
Yeah, he was. But my dad, see, he didn't go to college. He just finished high school in Japan and 
came over here. But he-- well, I guess I should say that he was literate in the sense that he was a 
man that had a lot of acquired knowledge through exposure and through experience, I'd say, he 
didn't do a lot of reading. But he had marvelous experiences going through India and been to 
Afghanistan, all of those things. He once also told me about-- I may have, you know, there was 
one very beautiful woman that he met in that area, and he says, My gosh, you know, you might 
have had an East Indian mother or something, you know. Anyway. 
 
Jill G. Smith  23:16 
What level of education did your mother have?  
 
Mary Aoki  23:18 
My mother just also went only to high school. But in those days, going to high school was-- even 
when I was in Japan, I went to this country school to go into part of grammar school, because in 
order to get into a good government school, you had to have this certificate saying that now she 
has, you know, finished her elementary education, and now she can adequately submit to taking 
exam or something. Because the government schools are the ones that were really considered-- 
private schools didn't have the prestige, yeah. Well, some of the private schools probably did. 
But anyway, it was always more prestigious to get into a good government school. 
 
Jill G. Smith  24:22 
Did your parents put a particular premium on education? 
 
Mary Aoki  24:24 
Always. Yeah, it was. Well, the reason that I went-- was sent to Japan was because my dad felt 
that the children might be scarred from prejudice. Because they had encountered some and I had 
always lived away from the Japanese community, and the grade school that I went to had very 
few Asians. There was one other family, and I never encountered that at school. Except once. 
Some big boy was bullying my brother and calling him names. And then, that was the first time I 
had the definite-- I identified myself. You know, the word brother. It's just a taken for granted 
thing. All of a sudden it seemed, that's my brother. It was the funniest thing to think that here 
was this-- I don't know what it was, he's my brother. Just that, you know, it was just an 
overwhelming experience for me, for me to go up to this big boy and say, Don't do that. He's my 
brother. He's only a little boy. He's my brother. And to this day, I remember that feeling, the first 
time, where I really felt that this was kin, and I had gone out of my way. It was, I don't know 
how to explain it [inaudible] very sense that I-- the idea that I realized that he was really my 
Page 9 of 14 
 
brother. He is my brother, but it was for the first time I really felt that he was he was. It was 
really a strange experience for me.  
 
Jill G. Smith  26:14 
It wasn't just someone who happened to live in the same house with you anymore. 
 
Jill G. Smith  26:16 
You must have been 12 or so? And you were called down to help your brother? 
 
Mary Aoki  26:16 
No, yeah. He was just somebody special. And it was out in the world, you know, and on the way 
to school, and I had a brother who had a problem. He had to undress in order to go to the 
bathroom when he was in kindergarten. He wasn't used to-- those were the days when they wore 
long johns, and he was like that to school. And he was in kindergarten, and Miss Chamberlain 
would call and I was so embarrassed because I had to run downstairs and take him to the 
bathroom, because he had to take off his clothes [laughs] to the bathroom. Oh, then later, I mean, 
many, many years later, I had a son who had this thing against black toilet seats, and he could not 
go into the bathroom. I thought, My gosh, I mean, why am I reliving this? But then, when, 
finally, after great practice, I told my mother I just cannot leave my class every time for Jimmy.  
 
Mary Aoki  26:28 
Yeah, I was probably younger, yeah. So. I came to the bathroom, remember the old [inaudible] 
down there, and I would have to run downstairs and take him to the bathroom. So he finally 
practiced and mastered it, thank goodness [laughs]. Those were the days when somehow I get the 
feeling that the teachers just didn't think anything about skipping you in school, in the classes 
were a little crowded, or whatever the reason. And I remember my dad, who would never attend 
any PTA meetings or anything like that, stormed into the principal's office and told him that In 
America, he says, where you are, you know, don't have the metric system. Fractions are very 
important. And he said that You're not going to skip my Mary from when she's got to learn her 
fractions, and I don't want her skip during fraction time. And I remember the principal, Mr. Kelly 
talking to him. He says, Yes, I understand Mr. Suzuki. Yes, we understand. You know, we just 
thought [inaudible] was. And, well, I was a good student, but it was only because I loved school. 
Yeah, it was just, I don't know, not that it was like a game, but it was-- I guess I've always been a 
very curious person, like, you know, at work, they tease me because I always ask one too many 
questions. And it's always because it's not so much that I'm nosy, but it's because I want to know 
the person better, or if I'm just curious, you know? And Jen tells me, Oh God, I just get teased all 
the time. Because, before I know it, I find myself doing this, but I've always been terribly 
inquisitive. They always tease me because I'm forever running to the dictionary. So I told them 
that I finally realized that since I went to Japan and I was brought up in a Japanese home, I don't 
know, [?Mother Ruth?] doesn't come naturally to me, like to everyone else you know. Or like, 
between a rock and a hard place, or some of these things, I have to think before I say it, because 
my parents never spoke the language. And those are little things in speech that you just pick up 
from what you hear around you. These are things that I did not grow up with.  
 
Jill G. Smith  29:48 
Were you able to read in Japanese as well as [inaudible]?  
Page 10 of 14 
 
 
Mary Aoki  29:51 
Well, my dad-- my mother taught me some Japanese at home, and then all the Japanese here had 
to go to Japanese school after their grade school. Okay, so I had to catch-- it was a seven and 
eight to Ravenna from a [?cascade?] school. We catch the bus and we go all the way to, its on 
King and 15th or 16th Avenue, the building is still there, and they made an exception with me. 
School started at 3:30, but as long as I was there by two minutes before, I was not considered 
late. Okay, so we really had to time it, and we would rush. And one of the-- twice a year, we had 
this interesting exam where you write as many characters as you know, okay, and so you could 
do anything at random. But I finally figured that there was just a certain time allotted. So first, do 
you think in terms of, you know, your body or anatomy, and then you sort of had to have-- and 
then maybe within your house, and then within the garden, you know, within the whatever. And 
it seemed like, when you used a certain system like that, you were able to write down more 
characters, rather than just randomly being down river and then mountain and something like 
river and house or something, was better to do, river, mountain, plane, et cetera. But I was two 
years younger than most of the kids in this [?tip?] school because they skipped me at [?tip?] 
school, because my parents had taught me at home, okay. And then, I would go to school, and 
I'm always late, and it was those seats where they had inkwells. And, you know, every day this 
guy would pull my seat and I would fall over. And I knew that this was going to happen, but I'd 
turned and he looked okay so I tried to sit [laughs]. And one day, the teacher finally cried. It was 
so hilarious. She wept to think that this-- James Yoshida, I think his name was, and do you know 
that he became a writer? And they made-- there, they've made a movie, or they're going to make 
a movie about this boy. But when I think-- I guess he had some something interesting about him, 
I thought he was a big bully and a great bore.  
 
Jill G. Smith  32:34 
Very predictable. 
 
Mary Aoki  32:35 
But when I finished eighth grade. My dad, as I told you, he was very concerned about prejudices, 
and he also felt that, if a person knew their background, their heritage, and rather than to have 
sort of trying to be educated both ways. He thought, if you were educated under one process and 
knew what the background that you came from, etc, and even if I was to live in America, things 
would probably more [inaudbible] than later in life. I don't want much. Have some. 
 
Jill G. Smith  33:16 
Thank you very much.  
 
Mary Aoki  33:22 
I told him I really didn't want any, but anyway, go ahead have some. It's, um, it looks-- is it 
strawberry jam? Yeah. 
 
Jill G. Smith  33:28 
Wonderful. 
 
Mary Aoki  33:31 
Page 11 of 14 
 
And my dad told me that he thought it would be a tremendous learning experience, and I was all 
gung ho to go. 
 
Jill G. Smith  33:41 
This was '36 or was [inaudible]? 
 
Mary Aoki  33:43 
1936, yeah. I was 11 years old, and I'd finished eighth grade. And that was the June I was at a 
school, and I left for Japan in August, and was on one of the the NYK lines, the Nippon Yusen 
Kaisha, which is the NYK line, okay. And it was very funny, because I was very excited about 
going to Japan, to another foreign country, and I knew I was going to be homesick, but it was 
just this excitement was even greater, you know.  
 
Jill G. Smith  34:25 
And you're going to stay with relatives? 
 
Mary Aoki  34:26 
Yeah, I was going to stay with relatives. And then a friend of ours went with us. She was going 
back to Japan, and so I didn't feel as frightened because I wasn't [inaudible] going by myself, you 
know. 
 
Jill G. Smith  34:27 
And you were going to go to school there for a while?  
 
Mary Aoki  34:40 
Yeah, to go to school.  
 
Jill G. Smith  34:41 
For how long?  
 
Mary Aoki  34:42 
And I ended up finishing college back there. 
 
Jill G. Smith  34:44 
Oh, straight through then? 
 
Mary Aoki  34:45 
Yeah, all the way through.  
 
Jill G. Smith  34:47 
Did you come over the summer?  
 
Mary Aoki  34:48 
Yeah, I came home every other year. My parents couldn't afford it every year. But every other 
year. I remember it cost around $66 I think, for third class, or that tourist class, you know. And 
there were very nice ships, large, you know, steamships, ocean-going liners. And as I recall, they 
Page 12 of 14 
 
had four beds. There was, you know, they're bunks in one room, and they usually put women 
together or whatever. And these people that I went back to, Mr. and Mrs. Hinatsu and me. And 
then there was another young woman that we had with when I first went to Japan, okay. But it 
was very exciting, because there was a very early-- before breakfast, there was-- they served 
something, and then they had a very leisurely break-- [inaudible]. They had sort of a 10 o'clock 
tea type thing, and lunch. And then there was afternoon tea, and there was dinner. It was just, 
really very elaborate, big social thing almost. 
 
Jill G. Smith  34:48 
How long did it take to [inaudible]? 
 
Mary Aoki  34:55 
Took 14 days. And my last trip back, when I came via San Francisco, was 10 days. Now, it's 
amazed how quick it was. And then 25 years later, I went by plane, and we were there in less 
than 10 hours. The shock of it was just too much. But I went with summer, so the ocean was very 
calm, but it was very beautiful. And I went to Japan. And speaking of learning those characters, I 
have to tell you, when I was in sixth grade and all the children kept commenting on my accent. I 
had this very-- this accent, Do Re Mi Fa Sol La, you know, they would say Do Re Mi Fa Sol La 
Ti Do [in a Japanese accent], you know, and I'd say, Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Ti Do, and they just 
thought that was hilarious. So, you know, it's very difficult. I tried to be like them, but I still had 
difficulty reading characters, even like taiyō, the sun. And shadows and some of those characters. 
I remember the first passage. There were so many words I couldn't read, but-- and this continued 
on. I did well in school. I adapted very well to the metric system, and I was able to estimate 
things to all these families. [Inaudible] Oh, it's my husband, Yosh. You look good in your apron 
bib. But anyway. Finally, in my second year in high school, all of a sudden it seemed like I was 
at the mountain top, and I could see way beyond. It was like attaining Nirvana or whatever. All 
of a sudden, I was reading girls magazines, till then, elementary school children's magazines. All 
of a sudden, I could read Natsume Sōseki, all these famous writers. And I thought it was like a 
miracle. But when you analyze it, it must be because you learn an X number of basic characters 
and after beyond that, things become very simple. You know, it's very-- it was like-- it was in my 
second semester, in my second year in high school. It's like a revelation. So.  
 
Jill G. Smith  38:43 
Everything just fell into place for your reading and your thinking? 
 
Mary Aoki  38:46 
Yeah, everything, it became very easy, and you try very hard not to be second generation, an 
American born person. I wanted not to be different. Okay, so even if my parents sent me nice 
laundry and stuff, I would always wear what the other kids wore, because during gym or 
whatever, they would see things. Even shoes, which were more comfortable if they came from 
here, I wouldn't wear them because I only wore them when you went to the city or whatever. But 
I live with my grandparents, and I rode my bike to the train station, and it's electric train, and 
then it was about a 20 minute ride. 
 
Jill G. Smith  39:38 
To get to school? 
Page 13 of 14 
 
 
Mary Aoki  39:39 
Uh-huh, and then I had to ride the bike. The bike took about 20 minutes too, it was several miles. 
I did not know how to ride a bike until I got there and I ran into a man once and he was very 
angry with me and my grandmother had to go to the home to make this apology. But finally, 
when I got good enough on my bike, which didn't, didn't take too long, but I was able to ride 
with one hand and hold my umbrella. Grandmother was so proud of me that she made the special 
red rice, kind of a [?pest?] of rice, for that occasion. But we would--  
 
Jill G. Smith  40:23 
--Did you have to use your umbrella often? 
 
Mary Aoki  40:25 
Yeah, and because it was a nuisance to wear the cape, you know, because I just seemed like it-- I 
always made it just in time to the station. I was never able-- I barely get my rucksack off the 
bike. And I would ask the station master to please take care of my bike, I'll be late [inaudible] 
and then so he would-- my grandmother again at twice a year would have to take, you know, 
sugar or whatever it was, to thank the station master. Okay, these are good to this granddaughter 
that couldn't get up in time, and he sometimes he would hold the train [inaudible]. It was very 
funny going to school, there were two trains and the girls all were always in this front 
[inaudible].  
 
Jill G. Smith  40:31 
Is that right? In high school?  
 
Mary Aoki  41:22 
[Inaudible] not in high school education. But high school is the age when, you know, you're 
always interested in the opposite [?family?]. And so the girls that were the very front of the first 
car were real squares, okay? And the girls that were in the back of their car [inaudible], whatever 
were sort of the [?model?], and so, just to be very neutral, you know, I always sort of was in the 
middle. 
 
Adele  42:03 
But where was your car? 
 
Mary Aoki  42:03 
I think, of all the deliberations, [inaudible] but it was very interesting, because I always knew 
that I was going to come back, and so I never did make close attachments. In that sense. I always 
felt that that was not my home, that eventually I was going to come back.  
 
Jill G. Smith  42:21 
Did it always seem to have a touch of adventure for you? Or?  
 
Mary Aoki  42:24 
Yeah, the whole experience, even the war experience, was a tremendous adventure in the sense 
that, well, you can't call the war years adventure. In a sense, it was, I guess. But, you learn 
Page 14 of 14 
 
positive things from this, at least I did, from this experience. And maybe I've talked to you about 
it before, but one thing was that, you know how your parents would sacrifice anything for you, 
but when you have a [?civic?] between us and a war, there was nothing they can do. Even my, all 
my-- the assets, the money that I had in the bank, because I'm an American citizen, is all frozen. 
And so, I had no way of getting to it. There's no way my parents could send us anything. So you 
realize that your parents not absolute in that sense, it's-- you just have to get-- you have to 
become-- you have to realize that you're in this situation. You're going to make the best of it. 
Okay. And then there many times when I thought, Oh, boy. But one thing, the best thing I 
learned from the war was that nothing was impossible. It was just always was a solution to 
things, you know, like my sister developed spinal caries and we wondered how she was going to-
- what would happen to her, and our physician sent her to the Nagoya Imperial University, and 
there was a kindly doctor who saw the plight, you know, and so he made her like a special-- a 
test case sounds funny, but he put her into a certain category where we didn't have to pay for, 
you know, like they had to make casts, and, you know, all this stuff to wear. But it wasn't 
tubercular in nature, so it worked out fine. And now, he's a very well known man in nuclear 
medicine, and he's been to visit us here. It's very interesting how-- it was kind of nice to be able 
to repay. You know, he really did a lot for us. He would invite us, and he'd take us out for dinner, 
and then he would take us to a nice movie or to see a nice exhibit, or he had a lot to do with-- of 
things cultural during the war, for this doctor's family. And then in the country, we really also 
had a group of people that were really nuts for Beethoven and, of course, well anyway, for 
chamber music. And I think I acquired my deep love, maybe for the last quartets of Beethoven. 
To me, it's one of the most beautiful, emotional and intellectual experience. But every second 
Sunday, we would get together in someone's home, okay? And we would play those 78 you 
know? And before we knew it, we were able to-- 